Online Conference

Transcript of On-Line Conference on Combat, hosted by "the 1938 Packard"
(four-time Emperor), on 22 June 1987, edited by Lavrenti Kutuzov.

Material in square brackets [like this] is commentary by the editor.

the 1938 Packard:

First, this subject (combat) is peculiarly subjective.

Combat means different things to different players.  I prefer the
running one-on-one battles of old, which could take 10 minutes to a
conclusion, with the loser limping to an Imperial Base at warp 2.
HOWEVER, now we have a new version inflicted upon us , which
emphasizes huge missles and quick attacks to death.

The jump from normal to hyper is generally fatal, particularly against
an organized team.  From the moment you leave orbit in normal, your ship
is in jeopardy: any passing ship within 60 lys may see you and launch a
2000-unit missile from a scout, which will render you semi-conscious in
a scout, i.e. dead meat.  This means hyper fast, or VERY late!

One of the things we should discuss is the current trend towards
hanging around Imps.

I think we all frown on being wasted hypering from an Imp, particularly
just logging on and hypering only to be smacked with 100k missiles.
Until the ghods give us "pic" to see outside the system, we are on our
own policing.  Anticipating a ship hypering is pretty low compared to
really dignified combat.  I too have stooped to it when angered, but I
believe we should all make an effort to leave and enter the imps
quickly, and engage other ships at warp 8-14.

Also, there can be no combat at warp 20-25. [I.e., at speeds that high
it is impossible to intercept a target ship, no missile can catch the
target, and even if you are staked out directly in your target's path,
your target will be in view for too short a time to permit a successful
attack with torpedos.] Many newer players are warping between imps and
wasting everybody's time who wants to engage them.

Now, I think the best way to proceed is to take specific questions.


=RANGER=:

1) What is a 100k mis?
2) Have rules changed much since War 17?
3) What are the major changes?


the 1938 Packard:

Yes, the current version allows a ship to carry unlimited fuel, and the
missiles are loaded with energy from the ship's fuel supply.  For
example, "mis 3405,100000" fires 2 100k mis at Phantasm, assuming you
have 500k energy on board.  I think you can only fire up to half the
energy onboard.

[The following relevant material was copied from the Version Notes
for Version 3.2f, and was still current at the time of the Conference:

"The energy specified is now the energy of the *cluster*, not per
missile.  Thus, a MIS 8302,5000 will use 5000 units of energy, not
10000.  Also, a energy loaded on the missiles is capped at 90% of the
energy remaining on the ship *after* firing the missiles.  This allows a
ship at very short range to load almost 90% of its fuel onto a missile
cluster."

Thus, Packard is not quite right -- actually, the Editor also had it
wrong during the Conference, but of course the Editor deleted all
evidence of his _own_ mistakes from the transcript! <>]


Ion Maiden:

I am used to "mis 1,2".  What is the amount of energy used on that?


the 1938 Packard:

That is no good at all.  It either fires normal missiles or missiles
with 2 extra units of energy. [In fact, it fires missiles with 2 extra
units: I checked the Version Notes.]


>>>>>911<<<<<:

A note on missiles: a volly of 2 = about 1/4 of a torpedo.

[911 is referring to normal, "unloaded" missiles, e.g.  "mis 331'.  In
fact, a torp does 600 "attack points" of damage, while an unloaded
missile does 150 points.  Thus, an unloaded cluster of two 150-point
missiles actually has the striking power of 1/2 a torpedo.  Note,
however, that torpedos penetrate shields, while missiles do not, so the
torp will actually deliver more damage than four missiles (two
clusters), unless the target has no shields.]


Ion Maiden:

Why don't we make it a policy to post Imp hunters in the Forum?


the 1938 Packard:

The Imp hunters are Quasi's quarry, that's what he does.


Ion Maiden:

Does that mean I get in trouble for hunting IMP hunters?
Are there still rabbit packs?


the 1938 Packard:

Yes, Quasi can laser you inside the imp!  He can and will blow you away
very fast!


HAKER:

SINCE OLDER PLAYERS HAVE MORE EXPERIENCE WITH FIGHTING, CAN I EVEN IT UP
A LITTLE


the 1938 Packard:

Well, you must gain experience.  Best time for that is first week after
reset: in 2nd week, the big teams will have cruisers, and you basically
can't beat a cruiser with a scout under this version: there's too much
energy [i.e. fuel] on a cruiser, or even a destroyer.  Scout fires one
missile, dents destroyer 45%, but scout is now out of energy, either
melts or gets "insufficient energy" message on next shot.  Next cruiser
missile or torpedo will kill the scout.


HAKER:

BUT THEY [i.e. the big teams] PREY ON NEW GUYS!  SO IM TARGET PRACTICE!


the 1938 Packard:

Your _only_ chance is get a bigger ship, or, get good with torps: jump
in and out of hyper, lasering his missiles, torping him -- and pray!

This brings up another point for the newer players: there is an "edge"
of hyper.  When you NAVigate into a system, and enter normal, you're on
that edge: at that point, you can laser, and "war ,2" to enter hyper,
_ususally_ without damage to your ship. [The exception is that, if you
come into normal close to a planet, you may have to move away from the
planet before you can enter hyperspace again.]

So, most of the better players have "macros" or function keys preset.
My personal ones are:

[F01] imp ,100
[F02] war ,3
[F03] end
[F04] loa 1
[F05] loa 2
[F06] loa 3
[F07] tor 1 (and I manually enter the heading)
[F08] tor 2...etc
[F09] mis
[F10] loc
[F11] fir
[F12] 10000 (for firing a 10k missile)


Lord Strider:

You mentioned unlimited fuel: is that in relation to hulls and tanks?

Plus, you said no fighting at warp 20 and above: is this technical or
just rules?


the 1938 Packard:

I don't think anybody knows how much fuel you can get in a 200-hull
Dreadnaught yet.

Last war, I was flying a 130-hull Dreadnaught (for speed and expense)
and it had a 300k Fuel tank on it.  Although the huge missiles are very
slow, firing a 100k mis into normal is death to everything.  I had 1300
lasers, and followed my missiels into the system, lasered the target
until the missiles hit.  My target had a choice: laser my missiles or my
ship.  If he hypered, my missiles would detonate instantly!  I didn't
lose in that dread.

Sicilian and Phantasm were more successful than I with the big dreads,
so I will ask for their comments in a bit.

No, there are no rules against fighting at warp anything.  I simply
meant, no missile is fast enough to hit a ship at warp 25 [The fastest
missile travels as warp 14.] Therefore, combat at warp 25 is impossible
at best.


LOCI:

I BELIEVE SOME OF YOU KNOW ME ENOUGH WITH IMP JUMPS BUT SINCE THIS WAR I
AM NOT JUMPING I GOT 8 DEATS IN 49 HOURS.

MY QUESTION IS, WHAT OTHER CHANCE HAS A NEWER PLAYER GOT BESIDES IMP
JUMPING AGAINST PLAYERS LIKE 331, 996, 3971?  A-SHORT TERM?  B-LONG
TERM?

I MEAN FIGHTING THEM BESIDE MAKING AN IMP JUMP.  IT IS OBVIOUS THAT SOME
OF US HAVE NO CHOICE.

the 1938 Packard:

Yes, you have a choice.  Under this new version, I almost never use Imps
for anything but banking, which I do in off-hours (when few players are
in space).  If you have done a good job with your PMming [Planetary
Management], and have a 3-huller (all planets are instant 3-hullers) you
don't need to visit Imps at all!  I stay in my home sector when not
answering a planet attack.


LOCI:

3 YEARS AGO I FEEL EXPERT PLAYERS WERE MORE HELPFUL.  IT IS NOW
OPPOSITE.  A NEW PLAYER GETS KILLED 20 TIMES IN HIS-HER FIRST SIGN ON.
YOUR COMMENTS ON THIS MATTER?


the 1938 Packard:

Yes, there's a running debate on this infamous subject.  Generally, new
scouts get shot on reset night just because nobody knows anybody, and
there are many mule ships out there, experienced players flying a "new"
ppn.  This was started by the (arghhh) Dorsai!  (hehe) and they got all
of us who fought them very suspicious of 0/0 scouts [i.e. scouts with 0
kills and 0 deaths] flying near an operation.

My practice is to not attack a scout I know is new unless he attacked a
team pla or ship or he closes on me in a hurry.


>>>>>911<<<<<:

This address all novices: the only way to compete with the Better Teams
is to learn to fight their style.  THAT IS KILL FIRST and ask questions
later!  This is only my second war, but I have quickly found out that to
survive you kill any way you possibly can!  That includes IMP JUMPS
against the better players, because if you go out into space you are
sure to get the message: Wasted by 331, 996, etc.  Fight FIRST, ask
questions later.


the 1938 Packard:

I think the first part of that comment is valid.  Yes, you must get
better to survive.

However, I noticed today, you have 28 kills in 3 days, 3830.


>>>>>911<<<<<:

Like I said: learn how to fight the opponent's style!!!

I believe that [a rule against "Imp-hugging"] would be a biased rule
against the novice'e only true advantage!

As I well know it is NOT the rule of the JRB!


DARK EMPIRE [The Death Star, Game Operator for Kesmai Corp]:

THE RULE IS TOUGH TO DEFINE ANYMORE.  IT SEEMS THAT IMP HUGGING HAS BEEN
CUT DOWN A LOT, AT LEAST THE 0,0 HUGGING SO YOU CAN ATT WITH A MIS
999999.  I HAVE NOTICED MORE PLAYERS OUT 30 LYS USING SMALLER MISSLES
AND TORPS.  THE ONLY *RULE* AGAINST IT IS THE MASS SLAUGHTER OF
*POTENTIALLY* NEW PLAYERS AND IT SEEMS THAT IMP HUGGERS GET A LITTLE
BORED SOMETIMES AND START SHOOTING AT EVERYTHING!!

[The reference to "0,0 hugging" is to sitting exactly on top of the
star, so that any ship entering hyperspace from the system will be
at range zero from your ship and be immediately hit by any missile
you launch.]


the 1938 Packard:

My personal practice is this: GENERALLY, when carrying cash or figs
(only reason I'm imping at all), I will throw up as much metal into the
air as possible to cover my entrance and exit.  When coming into an imp
at warp 14-18, with a target at 0 heading, I'm gonna pump 4 torps in him
with macros going in.  That's just life in hyper.


Plutarch 360:

This whole business of "IMP POPPING" should be changed dramtically with
the re-introduction of the "Imperial Slingshot".  I believe it is coming back next
war; am I correct?


the 1938 Packard:

Yes, that will correct it.  However, it will bring back the "slinging an
imp" technique.


The Master <149>:

What is the best advice the "old" players can give the "new" players to
help them get better at fighting so they don't get these 4 kills 30
deaths combat records??


DUTCH:

The first thing that I learned about combat was that if they can't hit
you they can't destroy you.

By that I mean the first thing to learn is how to avoid getting into a
bad situation.  I think we all know who is out looking for a kill and if
they are closing on you, then make a quick turn of about 100 degrees and
head for a Imp.  Escape is the key.  Then you get to pick the fights
that ypu want to get into on your own terms.  That will help your kill
ratio a lot.

Also I would say that in most cases, if you are not looking for combat,
it is hard to get killed if you are in a defensive mode, especially with
the slow loaded missiles we have and the weak normal missiles.  So if
you are new and want to get a good kill record, learn how to run.  Thats
what I do.


The Master <149>:

But what about with a big ship?  I get hit with 100k mis and go bye bye!
BCs, BSs and Dreads don't accelerate fast enough to escape!  And what
about when leaving a system?


the 1938 Packard:

You should stay out of imps as much as possible.

Use the unpredictability factor: if you see a mis heading at you from
over 80 lys, fire at it and "SCAn" [this will give you the numbers of
nearby stars], enter a nearby system, NAVigate immediately to planet "a"
and END.  You will escape attack.  Wait maybe 5 minutes, and scoop the
gas giant planet, emerge fast, NAVigate to one of your own planets.  If
the enemy is within 30 lys, do it again.  Throw it all at him: he's
probably stationary.

I have a file on combat in data library #9 [Packard refers to his
biography, which he filed in DL9 when appointed Player of the Month]
that outlines the way I learned combat step by step, including mental
preparation.


The Wizard:

How much time does an average player spend playing each day or week?


the 1938 Packard:

I can only guess.  I spend about 2-3 hours a day in a tough war.  In an
easy one, when planets are secure, I may not fly for 2 days.  I try to
make my time online count, building planets, or taking better ones
figging, taxing, intimidating the enemy (grin).


DARK EMPIRE:

The SLINGSHOT is going back in on a TRIAL basis BUT this time it will be
OPTIONAL to either try to avoid IMP huggers at 0,0 range and distance or
the Slingers by doing a WAR 0,0 once and getting some shots at them as
they are heading toward the IMP and you.  Plus it allows you to peek out
of the imp and return then you can sling or not sling.


Plutarch 360:

I still have trouble leading on torps, any insights into ship turning
speed in real time?  E.g., 100 grads per 2 secs?


Phantasm:

What i usually do when coming on a target is watch how many degrees he
turns after each scan.  If it's relatively consistent, -5...-5,then when
I get into torp range, I'll take a -5 off when I see his current
heading.

It doesn't work all the time, especially if the ship makes an abrupt
turn, but I find it the best for me.


Plutarch 360:

What about the better people who turn over 100 grads?


Phantasm:

It makes it a lot harder to hit them and you'll have to use missles
instead.


JESTER:

General comments on combat: get close, get first shot, tor then mis.

Best guess on mis size depends on range, and skill of opponent.  Those
that hit your mis, go small until real close then big.

When using torps, it sometimes pays to slow down (!) under warp 12 to
get a relatively stable position to shoot from.

Auto-dump has changed all of combat, to reemphasize tors and make mis
harder to land.


Plutarch 360:

I'd like to emphasize the use of Macros, they are a must!  They correct
many problems inherent in combat, such as TYPOS from nervous fingers,
and the timing advantage is tremendous.


Kutuzov:

I think the best advice has already been given: _think_ about what you
are doing.  Don't let your opponent fight the engagement _his_ way.
Play to _your_ strengths, not _his_.

But I think one thing has not been emphasized enough.  This is the
importance of _teamwork_.  Formidable as Packard is, one-on-one, how
much more formidable are Packard+Phantasm+Dutch together!

And that is what the newer players have to do too:
get together, operate as a team,
exchange ideas, try things, see what works, what doesn't.


the 1938 Packard:

As a matter of fact, against the Dorsai! we flew with an assigned
wingman and arranged times to fly combat next to each other, with our
own channel.  One of us was assigned to shoot enemy mis, other attack
him, then alternate.

You should see me and Viper or Sic in tandem wing: it's pretty hard to
stop.  We don't do it much anymore though.


Plutarch 360:

Pilot (8569) discovered much the same thing.  For 2 wars we flew in
tandem and the effect is devestating.  I concur.